Curse

IchibanK · Jan 07, 2012, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Hi all. I'm a relatively new player and just wanted to get some clarification on the actual changes between normal and hard modes after the update.

From some quick testing yesterday it appears as if hard mode armour level has been reduced to the same as that of normal mode. Checked this on the first few mob packs in Morostav Trail (normal and hard) and the first room in Foundry (normal and hard). Damage appears to now be the same in both modes.

Damage also corresponds to the armor levels for the creatures as indicated on the wiki. So I'm assuming for the moment that hard mode creatures have had their armour levels reduced to that of normal mode.

Once you hit level 20, most areas of the game have level 24+ creatures in normal mode. At this level, hard mode creatures are two levels higher. So it would appear that in most cases the armour reduction would be about two levels - or 6 armour rating.

This corresponds to around a ~10% increase in penetrating damage in hard mode. Or perhaps more accurately we would previously have been doing ~10% less in hard mode.

1. Can anyone show that the above assumption is not true?
2. Has anyone got any actual numbers yet on the amount of health increase?

Kunder · Jan 07, 2012, 02:04 AM // 02:04

It appears that most enemies are reduced down to normal level 20 base-AL.

Since enemies before gained +3 armor per level, that means the damage increase is:

vs lvl 24: -12 armor = 23%
vs lvl 28: -24 armor = 51%
vs lvl 30: -30 armor = 68%

For enemies that follow this pattern of nerfing.

Of course, this applies only to armor-respecting damage. Armor ignoring damage is unchanged.

IchibanK · Jan 07, 2012, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

It appears that most enemies are reduced down to normal level 20 base-AL.

This is why I'm getting confused. I see people saying this, but it doesn't match what I'm seeing in game.

Take as an example the Stone Scale Kirin on the Morostav Trail immediately outside Vasburg Armoury:

A hit from Chain Lightning @ Air16 is doing 105 damage. It's listed damage [email protected] is 90. I'm doing 1.166 times damage. This corresponds with an armour rating of 51 (roughly). Chain has 25% armour penetration - which equates to target armour of 68. Listed (and calcualted armor value for a level 23 creature on the wiki is 69). A variation of 1 but it appears the creature has its normal level 23 armour level on normal mode.

On hard mode it does the same damage. So in this case the level 27 armour rating has been reduced to match that of level 23. (In this case a drop of 9 armour rating).

Hitting with searing flames @16 does 91 damage listed damage is 106. Which is consistent with an armour rating of 69. Same damage in normal and hard mode.

[Deliberately avoided using Cracked Armour here which would effectively lower the armor rating to 60]

I Rahavan I · Jan 07, 2012, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Some things have different amour stats for air, fire, water, and earth. That might be the issue but idk I'm not good with this stuff.

Kunder · Jan 07, 2012, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Lots of things have random modifications to armor ontop of the normal profession stuff. Try testing on Human targets, which tend to have no special modifiers. Jade Brotherhood casters for example appear to have 60 AL no matter their level.

EDIT: Margonite casters have 68ish AL both in NM and HM, down from 83 before. You are correct that it seems NM and HM enemies now have the same armor, but both NM and HM were nerfed to lower armor levels overall.

WarcryOfTruth · Jan 07, 2012, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Lots of things have random modifications to armor ontop of the normal profession stuff. Try testing on Human targets, which tend to have no special modifiers. Jade Brotherhood casters for example appear to have 60 AL no matter their level.

EDIT: Margonite casters have 68ish AL both in NM and HM, down from 83 before. You are correct that it seems NM and HM enemies now have the same armor, but both NM and HM were nerfed to lower armor levels overall.

This isn't true of all Margonites is it? I don't think Margonites in DoA have 68 armor in HM...

dasmitchies · Jan 07, 2012, 05:05 AM // 05:05

And yet armor-ignoring damage is still boss...

IchibanK · Jan 07, 2012, 05:37 AM // 05:37

@ Kunder

Looks like a lot of the human enemies are Lvl 20 in normal mode - so the Lvl 26 hard mode version is now retaining the standard Lvl 20 armour rating. So yep, that's a fairly substantial improvement of 18 armour rating (36% or so).

Also, it does appear that caster Margonites (at least the Margonite Anur Dabi in the first room of Foundry) have an armour level of 68/69ish now in both normal and HM.

So, even more confused now.

Kunder · Jan 07, 2012, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Yeah, don't think there is really rhyme or reason to how much they were decreased. High level enemies can have about +10 or so global armor over the standard at most, which is about average (players get about the same amount of armor from their insignia/weapons generally).

Another interesting thing to look at would be just how much health was increased, but I'm not sure we have any data on how much it was before.

Spiritz · Jan 07, 2012, 09:56 AM // 09:56

I was going to say about armor vs the diff types of dmg - eg slightly more armor vs fire or a weakness towards air if you get my jist.
A prime example is vaetires who had a massive armor rating vs any ele dmg and probably high again vs weapons.Even the old earth tank ele using sliver only used to hit for something like 4 dmg because of their armor also they had around 600hp.
Wonder how rotscale compares now.

IchibanK · Jan 07, 2012, 04:21 PM // 16:21

I have located the anomaly with the Margonites.
I was testing with Lightbringer on and not allowing for it.

Chain damage @16 without Lightbringer was 83 - corresponding to the 83 armour rating as listed.

So still seems that hard mode armour has been reduced to that of normal mode. As Kunder pointed out - in some cases that might be quite significant - where the level of creatures in normal mode is significantly lower, however in others it will just be a 10% or so difference.

Kunder · Jan 07, 2012, 04:24 PM // 16:24

What? I tested 68 armor on the margonites. You sure you didn't hit one of the non-casters with higher armor?

EDIT: NVM, I must have done something wrong in my calculations before, I'm getting 82/83 armor from margonites as expected. It looks like it is simply HM->NM armor levels.

IchibanK · Jan 07, 2012, 04:30 PM // 16:30

I just tried the first room again just now.

Always targeting the Margonite Anur Dabi first with chain - having removed any cracked arrmour from the rest of the heroes. On the other hand it is late here, and I may have missed something again.

Oh I only tested normal too - but at this stage I'm pretty sure we're confident that normal and hard mode damage matches.

Edit: My current lightbringer rank is 4 - so +20% - curious that we should get the same result before though